kurowrites replied to your post: Beneath the cut isn’t nice but fuck i…

I’m actually trying to stay away from that whole issue as far as I can at the moment, because it seriously bothers me how some fans read the developments in that story and what they take away from it. It makes me worry in a very real way.

It makes me worry as well. I mean, I do get it. I completely understand that Steve (and we, as fans) felt completely betrayed because of what happened to him and that he probably focused more forcefully on Tony because of how close they were (supposed to be), but the fact that not only has the writers completely cut out any kind of active consequences/fallout surrounding the other key players but have also turned Steve Rogers, Captain (fucking) America, into a bully. A bully that thinks he’s ALWAYS right and when people disagree with him or betray him, in any way, well those people deserve to be outnumbered and beat up, and thrown into holes where they ‘won’t cause any problems’.

Excuse me, but can someone kill the damn skrull that’s pretending to be Steve Rogers and bring back the actual Steve Rogers? Soon? PLEASE?!

I’m just so damn disappointed in the writers, in Marvel, for doing this. There is no actual character development happening. It’s just all dystopic bullshit and, frankly, I’m so done with that.

scrollgirl replied to your post: Beneath the cut isn’t nice but fuck i…

not to excuse rapefic bc it’s def problematic (tho i do enjoy the fic you talk about) but imho there’s a diff bw Tony whump in Stony fic vs fans who honestly hate Tony. we focus on Tony bc we love him; we don’t care about Strange, Namor, or T’Challa.

Rape fic will always be problematic but I understand that there is a draw to it. I won’t lie and say I haven’t indulged in reading it (or writing it for that matter) but there’s something just completely disturbing about rape being the 'go to’ punishment/deterrent meant to 'show Tony his place’/'give Tony a way to earn back Steve’s trust’/etc.

I’m an angst junkie and I absolutely love Tony whump. I will literally read anything and everything there is without fail if I know there’s some Tony angst happening because I just cannot get enough of it. [I should point out, also, that I need a fic to either explicitly say there’s no happy ending so I can prepare myself or have a happy resolution so I can have my catharsis and warm fuzzies all in one go; if a fic isn’t labeled properly and I don’t get a chance to prepare myself I get grouchy.]

There is a definite difference between the two and I’m not saying, in any form or fashion, that the authors who wrote these rape fics are Tony haters. What I am saying is that it’s highly fucking disturbing that their idea of a bittersweet/not-so-happy-but-hopeful ending has Steve fucking a raped and raw Tony while crying out his 'sorries’. That’s not only emotional and sexual abuse but psychological torture, and Steve Rogers needs to stay far, far, FAR away.

And, honestly? It doesn’t matter if “we don’t care about [the other Illuminati members responsible]”. It really doesn’t because the fact of the matter is that they were there and they are all responsible for the mind wipe. They all played a part in it. And Tony was not Steve’s only friend in that group, not even the one he’d known the longest.

I understand why (we) focus on Tony and I absolutely love some of the deliciously angsty fics that have been written, but about 98% of these fics, despite my opinion of them, tend to neglect the other responsible parties and lay the blame firmly on Tony’s shoulders and that is complete bullshit.

I’m all for angst!!!! Love it and want ten thousand more angsty fics to read!!! But I’d really, truly love it if authors would stop slapping blinders on and actually share that blame around. I mean, I’ve read fics where Steve literally cows Tony with “judicious” backhands and aggressive/derogatory language but thank Reed or Strange sincerely and profusely for being so damned trustworthy. Like ??? ?? ? ???? tHeY WeRE THErE TOO!! They are rESPONSIBLE TOO!!!!

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for Steve to completely shut Tony out but welcome every other member of the Illuminati with open arms and trust. Yes, it hurts more because it was Tony but wow, Steve. All these other “good friends” broke your fucking trust and agreed to wipe your mind. They get a pass. Not Tony, nope. Tony deserves to be ridiculed and beat up and not listened to and raped because Steve just can’t trust him anymore.

That is a problem and not a small one.

I love some of these fics dearly but I cannot help being both disturbed and highly disappointed that the majority of them want to give every other person in the Illuminati a free pass because 'they don’t care about them’.

capsicleonyourleft replied to your post: Beneath the cut isn’t nice but fuck i…

i’m not caught up on the mindwipe arc yet & i don’t know how it’s developing, but i feel similarly about civil war. steve is closest to tony and that particular betrayal stings worse, but i hate when tony is vilified as the sole person responsible.

Good God, I could rant about the bullshit that was 'Civil War’ for years and still have angry words falling from my lips; it was complete and utter BULL HONKY and made absolutely NO SENSE WHATSOEVER! I swear I didn’t even know who these people were because they sure as hell weren’t the Avengers I grew up with nor the characters I admired.

Now don’t get me wrong, I did like some of the side stories that came out of Civil War (Runaways/Young Avengers being my favorite, but so problematic) but the actual event itself was stupid and turned almost every single person OOC. Why? Because Marvel just had to parallel 'real life events’ that was just as much bullshit as their dumb ass Civil War run.

You’re right, betrayal does sting worse when it’s from someone so intimately close and I don’t fault Steve for being angry, not one bit. I do, however, get viciously upset when it’s Tony alone that gets all that “righteous anger” turned on him. It’s not like Steve was friends with T'Challa or Reed or Namor, or any of them. Nope. Just Tony and that’s why Tony deserves to be shat upon and beat up and ignored, and treated like pond scum.

ARG!

Tony was not alone in supporting SHRA and he wasn’t even wrong for supporting it. He fucked up by not going to Steve, and the rest, at the first rumors, and he fucked up by try to do everything alone for as long as he did before things started to blow up, but Christ Almighty he wasn’t the only one that supported it. Janet van Dyne was a supporter but Steve totally forgave her. Reed was an avid supporter and helped a skrull!Hank and Tony come up with the knockoff Thor [Ragnarok], but apparently he gets a pass because of Sue??? Carol supported SHRA and Tony but she’s totes Steve’s best bud because reasons??? [Having her memory wiped away helped???? But Tony deleting his brain to keep everyone safe from Norman Osborn was just selfish and petty, and Tony trying to absolve his guilt??!?!]

I absolutely love Tony angst and whump and just mmm hurting, but when almost every single fic I’m reading completely ignores the other people involved it rankles. Tony was not alone in any of this (or Civil War) but he’s the only one anyone is blaming, most especially Steve.

And the thing I absolutely hate most? Everyone and their mother (superhero-wise) saying that [the mind wipe] was something Tony did to Steve and that they think it was completely wrong and blame Tony for it (even if some say they understand). Because last I checked, Stephen Strange is the asshole that actually wiped Steve’s mind. HE IS THE ONE THAT LITERALLY WIPED STEVE’S MIND, but nope. Tony totally wiped Steve’s mind, y'all. He’s solely responsible for that. Keep on ignoring the actual magic user that ACTUALLY did it and all the other guys that AGREED TO IT. They don’t matter. Just Tony. Tony’s the asshole that did it. Yep.

I’m just so very tired of the bullshit.